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Boardman writes: "In effect, Gillibrand justifies scuttling due process for some higher good. Gillibrand writes, 'I believe it would be better for our country' to have this just go away, essentially to sweep it under the rug, effectively a cover-up."

Senator Al Franken. (photo: AP)
Senator Al Franken. (photo: AP)


Lynch Mob of Democrats Goes After Al Franken in Burst of Cowardice

By William Boardman, Reader Supported News

07 December 17


AUTHOR’S NOTE: For those who want to see Sen. Franken remain in office at least until the Ethics Committee process has run its course, there’s a “We support Al Franken” petition at change.org with over 60,000 signatures as of December 8 – https://www.change.org/p/charles-schumer-we-support-al-franken

“Another woman says Franken tried to forcibly kiss her”

hat was the headline on a Politico story dated 9:08 a.m. on December 6. The story had no element of alleged touching, making the use of “forcibly” an example of yellow journalism. The accuser, Franken’s seventh, said Franken tried to kiss her as she was leaving a radio studio in 2006. She was then a “Democratic congressional aide,” according to Politico, which withheld her name. Franken told Politico, “This allegation is categorically not true…. I look forward to fully cooperating with the ongoing [Senate] ethics committee investigation.”

The story could have ended there, reasonably enough. Within hours, however, around 11 a.m., Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, Democrat of New York, posted a lengthy piece on her Facebook page with the headline, “Senator Franken Should Step Aside.” This is more than the seventh accuser has asked for. Gillibrand does not explain why she is making this call now, nor does she refer to the seventh accuser or Politico. There is no suggestion of collusion, but with Politico pushing the story, a stampede of Democrats rushed to join Gillibrand’s call. In two separate stories, Politico highlighted this next-to-last paragraph of Gillibrand’s much longer statement (which was not even alluded to, much less quoted):

While Senator Franken is entitled to have the Ethics Committee conclude its review, I believe it would be better for our country if he sent a clear message that any kind of mistreatment of women in our society isn’t acceptable by stepping aside to let someone else serve.

This excerpt from Senator Gillibrand’s post seems designed to appear reasonable, even statesmanlike (by day’s end it had 5.1K Likes and 864 Shares). Her full post is far more nuanced and at some variance from this, her conclusion on the matter. Surely even she must understand that this conclusion is an act of cowardice rooted in hypocrisy, perhaps masked by an unprincipled sense of political expedience. Belying her own headline, she offers lip service to Franken’s right to due process of law (in this case what is likely to be something of a circus of a Senate Ethics Committee investigation, deliberation, and judgment). But then she says he should forego any due process of law, suggesting he’s somehow undeserving of every citizen’s right, a not so subtle rendition of Red Queen justice: sentence first, verdict afterwards.

Before breaking down the Gillibrand gesture, let’s be clear: This is not a defense of Al Franken, nor is it a final judgment on him. For now it is enough to acknowledge, Gillibrand says on Facebook, that such “behavior towards women is unacceptable.” Franken’s behavior, as sketched in allegations and admissions, is enough for a probable cause finding that Franken has been an Inappropriate Man. The full dimensions of his behavior have yet to be determined, nor has there been any considered decision as to how best to respond to Inappropriate Men everywhere. This piece is a defense of due process, a call for proportionality in judging, and most of all a defense of honest, calm deliberation of a cultural sex-storm that has long needed open and decent airing.

Gillebrand renders judgment prematurely, sort of an obstruction of justice

In effect, Gillibrand justifies scuttling due process for some higher good. Gillibrand writes, “I believe it would be better for our country” to have this just go away, essentially to sweep it under the rug, effectively a cover-up. She argues that this would send “a clear message that any kind of mistreatment of women in our society isn’t acceptable,” which is wishful thinking hiding an unwillingness to consider the reality of a country with a sexual predator as President and another sexual predator on the verge of being elected in Alabama. Those are much clearer messages than any Franken resignation could ever be. Gillibrand’s approach to Franken is a form of scapegoating in a Democratic Party that has yet to come to meaningful terms with Bill Clinton’s sexual predation. That, too, is a clear message. Gillibrand would have us believe it’s better for the country to have Franken be a sacrificial lamb, rather than our struggling to come to serious terms with the full range, depth, and history of a culture that allows Inappropriate Men everywhere to feel entitled to their inappropriateness, thanks in part to the clear messages of predatory presidential scofflaws.

Gillibrand argues that Franken’s stepping aside would send a clear message, but she must know that’s sophistry, given all the others who have stepped aside over the years for infractions far worse than Inappropriate Man, and still the “message” has not been received.

So what could Gillibrand have said if she wished to truly lead, if she wished to be truly just, if she wished to be and not just seem to be “presidential”? She could have said something like: Whether Al Franken resigns or not is a matter of conscience for him to decide. The allegations against him to date do not come close to the charges against others, charges which are going unaddressed. Franken’s is a tough case, balancing inappropriate behavior that he has apologized for against a career in which, both in show business and the Senate, he has been a strong advocate and actor for women’s rights. What would be the real message of pillorying a man of such mixed degrees? The country will be better served, I think, by thoughtful deliberation – insofar as that is possible – by proceeding with the due process provided by the Senate Ethics Committee and coming to a considered, proportional judgment that is more nuanced than a ritual auto da fe. The country has long needed to consider the way it has lived, the behavior it tolerates from some and not from others, the honesty with which it approaches and embraces sexual issues. This case with Inappropriate Man is an opportunity to have such a conversation, an opportunity to consider ambiguity and nuance, an opportunity to try to find some proportionality in assessing behavior, rather than a one-size-fits-all sexual guillotine applied at the first whisper of accusation. This is a conversation intended to promote rationality, sanity, and understanding, this is about tolerance, not bigotry, this is about turning away from the way we are and trying once again to find our better angels.

Gillibrand knows better, even as she seeks to rid the world of that troublesome Franken. As she also writes in the same anti-Franken Facebook post:

But this moment of reckoning about our friends and colleagues who have been accused of sexual misconduct is necessary, and it is painful. We must not lose sight that this watershed moment is bigger than any one industry, any one party, or any one person.

The pervasiveness of sexual harassment and the experience women face every day across America within the existing power structure of society has finally come out of the shadows. It is a moment that we as a country cannot afford to ignore.

Unwanted sexual attention is unacceptable, but it is not monochromatic. Or is a missed kiss really equivalent to forced sodomy rape? Surely not, but the trickier problem is how and where to draw lines. And having drawn the lines, is it then only a question of punishment and retribution? Is there no middle ground? Is there no opportunity for real atonement? This is not about contrition (which can be easily faked) or forgiveness (who is the forgiver?), it’s about actual atonement. So which, hypothetically, serves justice better: Franken gone and soon forgotten? Or Franken in the Senate, accepting whatever guilt and responsibility he deserves, and carrying on publicly in full support of the articulated values of Gillibrand and others? Assuming he would perform that way (as yet uncertain), who would lose? He’s up for re-election in 2020. Can we not trust our processes to make some progress sorting this out? Or have we come to believe we live in an America where there is no difference between Minnesota and Alabama?

Gillibrand sensibly writes: “We have to rise to the occasion, and not shrink away from it, even when it’s hard, especially when it’s hard. That is what this larger moment is about.” But then she goes on to pre-judge the Franken case and call for the metaphorical guillotine. But to do what? Except for Franken’s immediate banishment, she has no serious answer. Maybe there is none. Or maybe the answer is the process of searching for an answer. Gillibrand expresses the confusion neatly and ungrammatically:

As the mother of two young boys, we owe it to our sons and daughters to not equivocate, but to offer clarity. We should not have to be explaining the gradations between sexual assault, harassment and unwelcome groping. And what message do we send to our sons and daughters when we accept gradations of crossing the line? None of it is ok and none of it should be tolerated.

And what is the form this enlightened intolerance should take? Kirsten Elizabeth Rutnik Gillibrand is a 51-year old trained attorney who has been in Congress since 2007 (the Senate since 2009). She is the daughter of two attorneys. She is a Dartmouth graduate (magna cum laude) who went to UCLA Law School. She seems to have presidential aspirations. She is a smart, experienced, thoughtful person – and the best she can come up with is an invitation to Al Franken to a self-lynching based on skimpy, somewhat disputed evidence? The best she can do is urge fellow Democrats to shoot their wounded?

She positioned herself for such a stand in mid-November, in a New York Times interview, when she said that President Clinton should have resigned once his affair with Monica Lewinsky became known, becoming the highest-ranking Democrat to take that position, though not without some ambiguity. As the Times reported:

Asked directly if she believed Mr. Clinton should have stepped down at the time, Ms. Gillibrand took a long pause and said, “Yes, I think that is the appropriate response.”

But she also appeared to signal that what is currently considered a fireable offense may have been more often overlooked during the Clinton era.

At the same time, on November 16, Gillibrand tweeted about Franken:

The allegations against Sen. Franken are deeply concerning. This kind of behavior is unacceptable and should not be tolerated anywhere in our society. There is nothing funny about it and there is no excuse for it. The Ethics Committee deserves answers from him.

Gillibrand has not explained why she has shifted from supporting due process to calling for immediate beheading (surely accuser number seven’s non-kiss was not a smoking gun, was it? And if so, why?). Comparing Gillibrand’s takes on Clinton and Franken vividly illustrates the moral ambiguity and confusion that sexual issues provoke. And that is the very reason the country needs a patient, accepting, broad-spectrum, tolerant exploration of the issues. A retreat into Puritanism, banning, shunning, closing down the possibility that not every offense is a hanging offense – that is not what the country needs.

Unfortunately, with her Franken-resignation post, Gillibrand chose to start that ill-formed snowball rolling down the slippery slope of political panic. Within hours of her post, dozens of other craven Democrats rushed to judgment. None of them expresses anything more compelling than their own political interest in having him gone, and it is universally pathetic. No one has come to his defense, or even to the defense of due process. Mostly the view expressed is that Franken has become inconvenient, with the apparent implication that actually talking about the substance of his and other cases is too distracting or something. Among the more mealy-mouthed comments came from Vermont democrat Patrick Leahy, an attorney who has been in the Senate almost forever (and has abused this author, albeit not sexually):

I just learned of the latest, disturbing allegation against Senator Franken. While the facts from case to case can differ, and while there are sound reasons for weighing evidence in such cases in a deliberate and carefully considered process, Senator Franken’s situation has become untenable. I am concerned that even a prompt Ethics Committee investigation and recommendations will not come soon enough. He has to step aside. I hope as a nation that we are beginning to come to terms with the systemic problem of sexual harassment and assault, but we still have a long way to go.

What does that mean, “a prompt Ethics Committee investigation and recommendations will not come soon enough.” Soon enough for what? Leahy doesn’t say. None of these Democrats, a majority of Democratic Senators, says why resignation is reasonable solution. It is not a solution, it is just a skirt-cleaning (you should pardon the pun), a way for Democrats to assume a purity they haven’t come close to earning. Leahy says, sanctimoniously, “we still have a long way to go,” while recommending sending Franken down the memory hole, which will help them proceed as slowly as ever.

One of the finer ironies of the whole sad Franken show is that we now have the spectacle of a herd of terrified Democrats carrying out the mission of trampling a senator targeted by the likes of Sean Hannity and Roger Stone. Even Franken’s first accuser, Leeann Tweeden, didn’t call for his resignation. By the time this piece is published, Al Franken may already be gone, and maybe that’s rough justice as far as he’s concerned (though I doubt it). Whatever else it is, it’s rough injustice for a country and its democratic processes that querulous senators chose not to support. Gillibrand and other Democrats might have read and even pondered “A Survivor’s Defense of Al Franken,” written by a woman on Medium. She makes a powerful argument:

The Democratic Party is practically handing the nation’s women and children over to pedophiles and rapists simply because they asked them to. And if we let Senators like Al Franken –  representatives that have voting records filled with support for women’s rights  –  fall to pedophiles like Roy Moore, then we are allowing the real traumas of exploited women be used as an excuse to put more women and girls in harm’s way. This is what terrifies me most.

When the Franken story was breaking in mid-November I wrote in concluding a piece then:

Perhaps the worst part of this whole mess is the stampede of craven Democrats to unprincipled safety, cloaked in a mantle of self-righteous pre-judgment. No wonder the Democratic Party is in the shape it’s in, divided and standing for nothing coherent, not even due process for one of its own or countering an apparent political hit job. Whatever turns out to be the full truth about Franken, we have yet another confirmation of Democratic spinelessness.

Yup.


William M. Boardman has over 40 years experience in theatre, radio, TV, print journalism, and non-fiction, including 20 years in the Vermont judiciary. He has received honors from Writers Guild of America, Corporation for Public Broadcasting, Vermont Life magazine, and an Emmy Award nomination from the Academy of Television Arts and Sciences.

Reader Supported News is the Publication of Origin for this work. Permission to republish is freely granted with credit and a link back to Reader Supported News.


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+97 # MikeAF48 2017-12-07 10:31
Al Franken hang tough and by all means don't back down or concede, you have broad shoulders, we need you at this time in America. Mike from Colorado.
 
 
-2 # WBoardman 2017-12-11 14:28
https://www.rawstory.com/2017/12/ex-gop-governor-stuns-with-call-for-franken-to-keep-job-after-absence-of-anything-resembling-due-process/

"Former Minnesota Gov. Arne Carlson (R) has called on Sen. Al Franken (D-MN) not to resign his Senate seat over sexual harassment allegations until he can receive “due process” from the Ethics Committee.... " [MORE]
 
 
+61 # RaW 2017-12-07 10:45
"we owe it to our sons and daughters to not equivocate, but to offer clarity. We should not have to be explaining the gradations between sexual assault, harassment and unwelcome groping. And what message do we send to our sons and daughters when we accept gradations of crossing the line? None of it is ok and none of it should be tolerated."

and “I think when we start having to talk about the differences between sexual assault and sexual harassment and unwanted groping you are having the wrong conversation”

So, what, all alleged infractions are now felony convictions? No difference between the penalties for a lane change in which the accuser says she didn't see the turn signal, and vehicular manslaughter?

What do our lawmakers not understand about law? About "innocent until proven guilty"? About that vaunted American freedom? Even about politics?
 
 
+17 # tgemberl 2017-12-07 16:09
RaW,
I agree with you. What Gillibrand is missing in that quote is that women respond to different behaviors on this "gradation" depending on who the man is. This is not to say that parents should tell their sons it's okay to grope women. Of course a man should always be looking to see if his advances are welcome, and if not, back off. But we have to recognize that sex and "courting" are matters of spontaneity. Every time a man encounters a woman who looks attractive to him, he can't be expected to walk up to her and say, "I find you attractive. Will you mind if I look at you and maybe talk to you in the future?" She would consider him crazy if he did so. But if he doesn't, there is always a possibility that his interest in her may be unwelcome to some degree.
 
 
+13 # lfeuille 2017-12-07 19:46
This is just another application of zero tolerance, which while comfortable clean and simple, hasn't worked very well with drugs.
It doesn't discourage the behavior in question and very frequently leads to new kinds of injustice.
 
 
-52 # DudeistPriest 2017-12-07 11:19
The Democrats have become the party of gays, women and cowards. They certainly don't represent me, and I will not be supporting them. Since I hate Republicans, and the Greens have no base I suppose I'm disenfranchised , and will be joining the ranks of people who don't take part in the biannual charade. To hell with America.
 
 
+28 # Working Class 2017-12-07 12:43
Great Dudeist your action is exactly what the what those stealing our government want. Lay down - surrender. Be a coward. Leave the field of battle. That's what our Founders did when faced with the tyranny of the British Crown. Oh wait - they laid it all on the line to defend their beliefs. Coward....
 
 
+13 # randrjwr 2017-12-07 15:31
Quoting DudeistPriest:
The Democrats have become the party of gays, women and cowards. They certainly don't represent me, and I will not be supporting them. Since I hate Republicans, and the Greens have no base I suppose I'm disenfranchised, and will be joining the ranks of people who don't take part in the biannual charade. To hell with America.


I suspect there are many people who feel as you do about both current political parties. Do you like what the Greens stand for? Join the Greens! If you, and others who might like their ideas, would just join them, then they would have a base! And while you are at it, push like hell for rank-choice voting; then a third party could have a chance.
 
 
-30 # babaregi 2017-12-07 16:04
Quoting DudeistPriest:
The Democrats have become the party of gays, women and cowards. They certainly don't represent me, and I will not be supporting them. Since I hate Republicans, and the Greens have no base I suppose I'm disenfranchised, and will be joining the ranks of people who don't take part in the biannual charade. To hell with America.


The feminists(women ), manginas, simps, cucks and Alpha males (bad boys getting most of the action) have effectively marginalized the average western man (you) is out of luck.

It's not just the Democrats doing this but they do capitalize on the female vote.
 
 
-11 # Cassandra2012 2017-12-08 17:25
Quoting babaregi:
Quoting DudeistPriest:
The Democrats have become the party of gays, women and cowards. They certainly don't represent me, and I will not be supporting them. Since I hate Republicans, and the Greens have no base I suppose I'm disenfranchised, and will be joining the ranks of people who don't take part in the biannual charade. To hell with America.


The feminists(women), manginas, simps, cucks and Alpha males (bad boys getting most of the action) have effectively marginalized the average western man (you) is out of luck.

It's not just the Democrats doing this but they do capitalize on the female vote.

The average male tries to get away with whatever he can-- he does not tread the high ground, nor has he much in the way of ethics to guide him.
 
 
+3 # babaregi 2017-12-09 00:31
Quoting Cassandra2012:
Quoting babaregi:
Quoting DudeistPriest:
The Democrats have become the party of gays, women and cowards. They certainly don't represent me, and I will not be supporting them. Since I hate Republicans, and the Greens have no base I suppose I'm disenfranchised, and will be joining the ranks of people who don't take part in the biannual charade. To hell with America.


The feminists(women), manginas, simps, cucks and Alpha males (bad boys getting most of the action) have effectively marginalized the average western man (you) is out of luck.

It's not just the Democrats doing this but they do capitalize on the female vote.

The average male tries to get away with whatever he can-- he does not tread the high ground, nor has he much in the way of ethics to guide him.


And you think Women are different when allowed to act as they wish?
 
 
-2 # kyzipster 2017-12-10 19:06
50% of white women voted for Trump. I don't know what this means exactly but it does say something about the average woman in this country.
 
 
+10 # CDMR 2017-12-08 14:23
I feel a lot like you do. Americans have gone mad.
 
 
-2 # kyzipster 2017-12-10 19:03
As John Wayne once said, real men don't condemn sexual harassment.
 
 
-8 # Colleen Clark 2017-12-07 11:46
Politically I like Franken a lot. But I'm persuaded that the political parties cannot afford to forgive/dismiss their own politicians and point fingers at the egregious sexual harassment behavior of members of the other party. Now the Republicans have to come up with excuses to dismiss the much more egregious behavior of President Trump and candidate Moore and I'm sure hundreds of others.
 
 
+49 # WBoardman 2017-12-07 12:44
Colleen Clark is right about accountability,
but based on what we know now, Franken is not guilty
of very much, even if you believe everything.
He could be held accountable by the Ethics Committee,
and his party, without the party committing hari kari.

Just as there are degrees of sin, there are degrees of
punishment and public atonement.

But that requires thoughtfulness, attention to detail, and courage. Not strong Democratic qualities.

And to think Republicans will "have to come up with
excuses" is just funny.

Republicans won't have to do anything. And they won't.

Lordy how I would love to be proven wrong.
 
 
+3 # vicnada 2017-12-08 09:22
"Republicans won't have to do anything. And they won't."

Except, in a move of political jujitsu, they echo your lynch mob characterizatio n. Of course, in search of the opposite result. https://tinyurl.com/y9qsc5tq

"Lordy how I would love to be proven wrong." God, how I wish they would burn their way straight to hell.
 
 
+4 # Cassandra2012 2017-12-08 17:30
Exactly!
 
 
+16 # tgemberl 2017-12-07 16:13
Colleen,
Look at my comment to RaW above. Boardman is right that we have to have a national conversation on the subtleties of this. A "zero tolerance" policy won't be effective unless we are clear on exactly what kind of behavior has to be tolerated or not.
 
 
+31 # Jim Rocket 2017-12-07 18:20
Here's the problem: Republicans do not care at all about ethics or morality. They prove it every day. Remember when Al Gore gave up fighting for every vote to be counted and the Rs committed to a new, higher standard in the future? Didn't happen!
Remember when John Kerry didn't fight back at the swiftboaters and election cheating and the R's learned a lesson and cleaned up their act? Nope!

Today's Republicans don't see principles - they see winners and losers and will merely laugh at the Dems for making their jobs easier. FFS! The Rs are actively gutting American democracy and society and laughing all the way to the bank.

if more and serious incidences come out about Franken then he absolutely goes in the garbage but I agree with Boardman (at this time). The worst case scenario is that these righteous Dems are really courting Team Koch donors and the defenestration of Franken will be money in their war chests...and pensions...and Caribbean accounts.
 
 
+12 # nickyus 2017-12-07 19:59
Republicans do not and will not feel any need to apologize or excuse away their own crimes. They will rejoice to see their opponents committing suicide, and continue unobstructed on their merry way, plundering everything in sight. (Enjoying new levels of support from a backlash that will probably set women's rights back decades.)
 
 
+3 # chapdrum 2017-12-08 14:19
Republicans don't have to do anything they don't want to do. And they get pass after pass for it.
 
 
+7 # Cassandra2012 2017-12-08 17:28
First let's see Trumpolini, the disgusting Pussy-groper-in =chief go ! Adn th child-molester, Moore resign!
 
 
-3 # Brice 2017-12-08 22:45
Show me EGREGIOUS
 
 
+61 # Lgfoot 2017-12-07 11:55
In the unherdable department, cats have nothing on the Dems. In the face of the historic opportunity to undo some of the damage of gerrymandering, voter suppression and other Republican manipulation of our election process, the Dems chose a circular firing squad. Pathetic.
 
 
+94 # vt143 2017-12-07 12:00
So this is it: Democrats (Conyers, Franken) get accused of sexual misconduct, admit to it and then resign. Republicans get accused of sexual misconduct, deny it and get elected. You know, this f**ing country deserves exactly what it gets. If I wasn't 68 I'd move away and never come back. We are seeing a failing country devouring itself. It's not pretty and it's taking us all down with it.
 
 
+24 # Rodion Raskolnikov 2017-12-07 13:04
vt43 -- you nailed it. This has happened over and over. I admire both Conyers and Franken for their honesty. Moore and his crew are scum.
 
 
+30 # Guangzhou 2017-12-07 17:19
So true--the Democrats resign, and the Republicans get elected. The Republicans are laughing their heads off at us. There is NOTHING they won't do to get elected--no matter how perverse their conduct. Nothing matters to Republican voters. We've lost our only truly effective senator. And his antics were nothing more than those of a silly high school boy. This is sickening. I am furious with the Democrats.
 
 
+14 # lfeuille 2017-12-07 21:02
Well, they didn't admit it. Conyers has denied wrong doing without elaborating and says he is leaving because of the stress induced by the situation. This is likely true. He's 88 and ended up it the hospital over it.

Franken has outright denied some of the allegations and said that his memory of others differs from what they accusors claimed. He should have been given the opoortunity to explain how he remembers it to the ethics committee.
 
 
-54 # babaregi 2017-12-07 12:08
Hey, Mr. Boardman, you can't have it both ways!

If you want to hold men accountable only when it conveniently suits your political ideology then don't be surprised when the dogs you unleash turn on you.

There is a deeper problem that goes unchecked in Leftist thought; Man/woman relationships in modern western society are turning sour in a big way.

Two links:

(The War on Boys)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPgoyK_5KV0

(Men will always be pigs unless there are rules)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cs5zeeJexo
 
 
+83 # WBoardman 2017-12-07 12:23
http://thehill.com/video/senate/363739-watch-live-franken-speaks-on-senate-floor-amid-calls-to-resign

This links to the 14 minute video of Franken's speech.

The emptiness of the chamber and the eerie quiet
make it quite surreal.

Can the country really afford to squander such a decent
person (on balance)?

The manner of his leaving suggests a possible backstory,
but that's just speculation.

We are left with a Senator executed without trial
by a party of unprincipled cowards.
 
 
+3 # diandv@bellsouth.net 2017-12-10 08:42
#Dianaellen
Gillibrand’s rush to condemn Franken has confirmed the misogynists’ view that women will stab you in the back, are overly emotional, think everything is personal, and are incapable of fairness, wisdom, or the ability to see or judge issues clearly. She’s set back feminism in this country by at least two decades. Franken is a real democrat, but there are many questions about Gillibrand’s support of big-money interests in the House and in the Senate. Franken should run again. I think he is likely to win, and his continued support of women’s interests may partially repair the damage Gillibrand has done all women in this country.
 
 
+10 # tedrey 2017-12-07 12:28
As a man, I feel that men should let women mostly work this problem out, and men should follow their lead.

I also hope that women give attention to such views as “A Survivor’s Defense of Al Franken,” to which William Boardman links above.

And now I fall silent on this topic in this forum, unless asked to comment. . . by a female.
 
 
+8 # RLF 2017-12-07 15:28
Just like white guys avoiding talking about racism...it is safe but while it is entirely possible one might make a comment perceived as racist because it isn't our everyday experience...if we don't dare there is no conversation and nothing changes.

While there are many men who are pigs...there are just as many women who use their good looks and sexuality to get all kinds of privileges. I don't see anyone condemning them. Can't have it both ways.
 
 
-5 # babaregi 2017-12-07 15:58
Quoting tedrey:
As a man, I feel that men should let women mostly work this problem out, and men should follow their lead.

I also hope that women give attention to such views as “A Survivor’s Defense of Al Franken,” to which William Boardman links above.

And now I fall silent on this topic, unless asked to comment. . . by a female.


As a man, yo may think that silence is your only option in this gynocentric society.

Letting women lead is part of the problem with the West. Female nature, left unchecked, is as destructive as Male nature running wild.

There should be shared accountability but when one side becomes dominant and silences the other, then the whole society breaks down (as it has been doing for quite some time).
 
 
+10 # Anonymot 2017-12-07 12:32
Thank you for an intelligent article in the face of increasing hysteria.

I'd like to add an unwelcome point. Much of this has to do with another piece of hysteria, Hillary Clinton, who has remained in that condition for a year now. She had only two areas of specialized knowledge and they were the basis of her campaign: women's rights and gay rights. This was all foreseeable. On those issues she was knowledgeable and sincere.

Otherwise, Hillary was about money and power. She spoke of other liberal causes to those of us on the so-called left and promised the opposite to those of Wall St & the MIC for whom she'd done so much good with the N African, Middle Eastern, and Ukrainian wars. Her obvious insincerity in those areas cost her the presidency.

I'm not young, but I've been an activist for women's rights and minority rights since I was on the debate team in university. I was abused when it was a learning experience not cause to gain dollars or publicity. As an adult, my No to a famous Producer/Direct or/Writer team cost me my future in the theater. I had intimate gay friends, but not in bed.

Living overseas taught me that the sensitivity of American women bordered on frigidity, not common elsewhere. The Sixties didn't erase the competitive drive of U.S. women.

The difference between loving and raw sex has driven the testosteroned to the insensitivity of frustration's abuses and the vaginated to the depths of a cold-hearted lynch mob.

A pity for both sexes.
 
 
+3 # tgemberl 2017-12-07 21:00
"The difference between loving and raw sex has driven the testosteroned to the insensitivity of frustration's abuses and the vaginated to the depths of a cold-hearted lynch mob."

Meaning?
 
 
+6 # Anonymot 2017-12-08 17:20
It's a bit difficult to explain in a short version.

We were a very prudish country. Erotic books were censored, couldn't be imported. Movies showed only lip kissing. Everything existed, but behind closed doors and undiscussed except by the boys in the locker rooms.

Suddenly, in the Sixties, hippydom turned that on its head. Sex was OK, but the participating youth had little experience beyond braggadocio. A lot of frustration roared out of a lot of young, timid people. If sex was suddenly alright, they didn't know how to court/seduce. It was Let's f*ck! The pent up frustration created a new sense of sex. It was mostly loveless. It applied far more to the dominant males than to our women.

It was a break in our morality's history.

I was raised in the puritan period, frustrated and timid, but at the beginning of the Sixties I moved to Paris. Single, I learned about how most of the world treats sexual relations. In Paris it was sensuality & seduction. It was for all genders. It was about making love, even for a short time. It was not about a raw f*ck. It was not rude, crude or brusque. There was style and class and everyone knew the rules. Women didn't live in fear of men, but in complement.

Yet I often heard American tourist women complain about a whistle or remark or being looked at approvingly. To the European woman that was a compliment. To an American it was rude, a forerunner to being raped.

So it's unhappy, explosive, backwards

Very short version.
 
 
0 # kyzipster 2017-12-11 11:42
I didn't pay much attention to Hillary's campaign but in the LGBTQ press, there was much animosity towards her and much support for Sanders. He didn't make LGBTQ rights a major part of his platform.

Any attempt to credit Hillary or the Dem Party with LGBTQ rights is rightly shut down by LGBTQ people with opposing views. There's a belief that's developed that the Dem Party is all about gay rights. Those of us who are older don't see that. They ignored our issues until polls told them it was safe, a very recent phenomenon. We support the Dem Party because the opposition aggressively opposes us, it's been a part of the GOP platform, not the Dem platform. Both Hillary and Obama spoke against same sex marriage when polls dictated it. Plenty of us were put off but we didn't raise much of a stink. We were basically used to this treatment.

As a group, we've made very few demands of Dem politicians. We're often resented by fellow liberals because our issues are so prominent and divide the population but that's because the opposition insists on it and the media feeds it.

The same is true today. We're the only minority that does not have protection under civil rights laws passed in the 60s. Nobody was asking Hillary to make this a priority. It's hardly in the news, our lobbyists are quietly working behind the scenes but we understand that it's not the right environment to make this a priority. It may work out in the justice system like most of our issues over the years.
 
 
0 # kyzipster 2017-12-11 18:34
..and if people are wondering why transgender people are so 'in our face' right now. I believe it's come out of right-wing legislative attacks on their basic rights to use a toilet. Now that public opinion has turned in favor of treating lesbian and gay people with some dignity, the right-wing media and state legislatures have attacked transgender people. Prior to this, they motivated their base with the fear of same sex marriage. Passing state constitutional amendments banning rights in 31 states. This went on for years. Naturally, they needed a new target now that this issue is almost settled.

It has partly come from larger acceptance that has happened very gradually. Parents raising their transgender children as transgender people and then forced to sue the school system for basic rights. This may have sparked it, but it's not what has pushed it to the forefront. That was probably the boycott of North Carolina and their infamous bathroom bill.

It's certainly not an effort by the LGBTQ 'agenda' to force Democrats to take on this hot button issue. It's mostly Fox News telling their viewers to be afraid of men wearing dresses and raping their women at Target. I talked to one Hispanic Trump voter, that was his sole reason for supporting Trump.
 
 
+27 # SFAdvocate 2017-12-07 12:39
What will we teach our children? We will teach them that we are a reasoning and fair system that rejects Zero Tolerance as a standard fit for a totalitarian government but unfit for a democracy. Shades of the Three Strikes debacle, and kids arrested for bringing their plastic guns to school. Al Franken is a feminist who acts like a jerk sometimes. He is not a predatory. He did not break any laws. Change the system and then enforce. This is cowardice.
 
 
+19 # Robbee 2017-12-07 12:42
as an imperfect man, franken has handled the "vast right-wing conspiracy" as well as can be - after a few months of "reflection" robbee hopes that al resumes being the powerful voice he has been for all progressives!
 
 
+33 # artistre 2017-12-07 12:43
Senator Kirsten Gillibrand
I quote "The Democratic Party is practically handing the nation’s women and children over to pedophiles and rapists simply because they asked them to. And if we let Senators like Al Franken –  representative s that have voting records filled with support for women’s rights  –  fall to pedophiles like Roy Moore, then we are allowing the real traumas of exploited women be used as an excuse to put more women and girls in harm’s way. This is what terrifies me most."
WHY HAVE YOU NOT DEMANDED TRUMP STEPPED DOWN FOR ADMITTED UNWANTED ATTACKS ON AT LEASE 20 WOMEN ATTACKING THEIR PRIVATE PARTS ? YOU WOULD BE BETTER STOPPING TRUMP AND MOORE THEN A GOOD MAN LIKE FRANKEN AND A DEMOCRAT WE NEED. SHAME ON YOU!!!!
 
 
+16 # WBoardman 2017-12-07 13:10
tedrey's humility is admirable, up to a point,
and that point would be where it becomes abdication.

Call me idealistic, but wouldn't it be best for men AND women
to work together in good faith?
with calm deliberation?
and integrity?
with a goal of mutual respect and clear signals?

My naivete almost makes me laugh. But....
 
 
-8 # Cassandra2012 2017-12-08 17:33
Perhaps we need to put the testosterone-po isoned in cages?
 
 
+1 # tedrey 2017-12-09 13:07
Ignoring the fact that I have just given you a thumbs up, I still have to ask if it is "abdication" to suggest that generally men should let women open the dialogue? Or why this thread includes so many (identifiable) men laying out their opinions and solutions without noticing that almost no (identifiable) women are taking part?
 
 
+28 # Salus Populi 2017-12-07 13:59
The auto-da-fé that the Democrats are taking part in is not only unprincipled, but worse, it is a blunder on a Titanic scale.

Up until a couple of days ago, it appeared that there was at least a chance that accused pedophile and convicted liar and serial violator of his Oath of Office Roy "Bean" Moore might lose to his Democratic opponent.

By ganging up on Franken and Conyers, and insisting that they deserved to be lynched rather than having their day in court [the Ethics Committees], they have provided Moore with just the excuse he needs to justify the crass political calculations of the Republican Party. After all, if the Democrats are making headlines by accusing their own of serial sexual misconduct, then obviously the Republicans are no worse, and the Party of Family Nazis should concentrate on maintaining the power it has stolen, cheated, lied, and debased itself to obtain.

Never has it been truer than now that the Left's degeneration has led to the only debate it tolerates being a circular firing squad.
 
 
-1 # lfeuille 2017-12-07 19:56
Yes, I think you are right. I think the Dems may have made a strategic error in doubling down on Moore's transgressions in the first place. The base just outright doesn't believe it and they are energized by it.
 
 
+24 # peter.hoffmann@mcgill.ca 2017-12-07 14:24
If Al Franken has to resign, if apparently one woman can destroy the career of Garrison Keiller---why does not Donald Trump have to resign for far worse offences?
Peter Hoffmann
 
 
+7 # lfeuille 2017-12-07 19:58
Because there is no one in the Republican Party who will tell him he has to resign and he wouldn't listen even if there was. There is no way to force a President who is defiant to resign.
 
 
-1 # Caliban 2017-12-09 18:19
Except impeachment (or the threat of it, a la Nixon) for just just and constitutionall y mandated reasons.

I say, let's get started compiling those reasons and getting our frightened Democratic legislators to pull themselves together and act.
 
 
+1 # Brice 2017-12-08 22:41
Because this whole thing is a oligarch-corpor ate media thing that is manipulated to do with women what the last election did with black and whites ... turn everyone against each other so the fascist Republicans can just walk away with everything. This women's rights thing has turned from the sublime to the ridiculous
 
 
+21 # ellen9 2017-12-07 14:27
Al Franken should have been allowed to appear before the ethics committee and be able to give his side of the accusations. The accusers should have been investigated before their claims were taken for fact. In these days of upheaval as a result of a Trump presidency, some care should be taken to react in a thoughtful manner. Kirsten Gillibrand is wrong to call for his resignation at this time. It won't help Democrats to be seen as the righteous party while the Republicans hold the majority, support a pedophile and a president who has stated on tape that he is a sexual predator, pass a dishonest tax bill opposed by the majority of the citizens and continue to try to break down the rule of law in our country. Republicans hold the power and can not be relied upon to do what is best for our country and its citizens. In fact, they are doing just the opposite by remaining silent while our country is systematically being destroyed by an incompetent president and cabinet.
 
 
+3 # lfeuille 2017-12-07 20:05
I absolutely agree. That is what happens in an honest police investigation regardless of the nature of the alleged offense. (Of course many police investigations of sexual assault, as well as police misconduct are not honest - but that doesn't meaning congressional investigations shouldn't be). The Dems are just trying to get this out of the headlines, but I don't think Moore supporters are going to forget.
 
 
+25 # RnR 2017-12-07 17:03
I'm returning every request for money from any of the Democrats with the response: go get it from Gillibrand and every Democrat who kicked Al Franken out of the Senate...NOT ME ANYMORE.

They probably don't read it but it makes me feel better. I did call his office and asked him not to step down but it seems like they forced him. Same bunch who screwed Bernie out of the nomination.
 
 
+1 # Anonymot 2017-12-08 17:27
Absolutely.
an ex-Democrat!
 
 
+22 # dandevries 2017-12-07 18:18
Boardman is, as is so often the case, exactly right. As a San Franciscan, I am adding Kamala Harris to the list of Dems I will never vote for again. (DiFi achieved that distinction years ago.) More and more, I find national Dems nearly as loathsome as garden variety R's. How long, O lords of the land, how long?
 
 
+8 # Brice 2017-12-08 10:03
I liked Kamala Harris, but her ability to be manipulated by this situation really sours me on her.
 
 
+6 # lfeuille 2017-12-07 21:13
I am upset that Franken will not get the chance to present his side of the story to the ethics committee. Contrary to what some have said above, he has NOT admitted wrong doing. He is saying that he can no longer be effective in the current atmosphere. This is obviously true. He has outright denied some of the accusations and says he remembers other incidents differently from what the accusers are claiming. I would have liked to hear how he remembers these incidents. I am not convinced that he wasn't set up. The accusations are sort or weak and vague compared to most of the other recent cases and the timing is suspicious to say the least.

He is not my favorite Senator. He jumped into Russiagate with both feet and his recent "endorsement" of Sanders Medicare for All bill was halfhearted and appeared to be merely political expedience. But it scares me that a right wing lie factory could dispatch a Senator so easily. The next time it could be someone really important to progressives.
 
 
+10 # tm7devils 2017-12-07 23:14
This is nothing more than a power play by Gillibrand(and the rest of the Dems that fell in line behind her)...and a highly unethical and immoral one at that. The Dem party needs a 'Franken' way more than it needs a 'Gillibrand' - and the rest of her Kangaroo court.
Don't leave Mr. Franken...fight to the end.
 
 
+4 # draak 2017-12-08 15:02
See "author's note", added later by Boardman:
AUTHOR’S NOTE: For those who want to see Sen. Franken remain in office at least until the Ethics Committee process has run its course, there’s a “We support Al Franken” petition at change.org with over 60,000 signatures as of December 8 – https://www.change.org/p/charles-schumer-we-support-al-franken
 
 
+11 # Texas Aggie 2017-12-07 23:56
What was missing in her screed is that she was pushing a false equivalence. It is one of the most dishonest debating techniques that there are, and for her to indulge in this kind of deceit is absolutely disgusting.
 
 
+11 # tpmco 2017-12-08 08:11
I don't think Francken should resign. He fought hard to get the job through the recount process in Minnesota in 2008 and well into 2009, and I hardly think of him as being incapable of performing that job well. In fact, quite the opposite.
 
 
+13 # Brice 2017-12-08 10:01
Franken was one of the only Senators that was actually trying to do something, to stand up and stand out. He was getting a lot of traction lately, and that explains a lot why FOX News was out to get him.

But the really earthshaking news here is why the Democratic party turned on Al like a bloodthirsty herd of sharks. I could not believe that, AND further what the F was Bernie Sanders doing adding himself to that list.

This frenzy of unsubstantiated allegations some without even identification has made me see the Democratic party in a much more negative light. I am not sure this party can be saved, and that is a terrible thing, because it will take 30 years to create a new party that has any use or power, if it can even be done without the corporate money the establishment parties get.

I can only think to see this as the uncovered hand of the corporate state taking out someone they view as threat. Sounds like a conspiracy theory I know, but this has the irrational narrative and thinking of a media operation to decapitate a political party, or in this case the Leftward wing of the Democratic Party.

This is very sad that it may affect Bernie Sanders run from the Democratic side, and he cannot even escape from this scarred image if he ran independent.

I am very disappointed in the Democrats, a lot of who have very close ties to corporations and super rich donors. This is going to make Democrats self-hate even more, say hello to a second term for Trump.
 
 
+5 # chapdrum 2017-12-08 14:15
Never have I seen dozens of Congressional colleagues ask a Senator to step down. Never. Speculation is that Schumer and Pelosi are behind it; if so, what a disservice to (1) our country and (2) the Democratic Party. Let's make nice with Donboy - maybe he'll go away.
 
 
+11 # Lisa Simeone 2017-12-08 14:34
Another excellent column, Mr. Boardman. As we've discussed before, Leann Tweeden lied about the photograph, as anyone with eyes can see. I think she's being used, wittingly or unwittingly, by ratfkr extraordinaire Roger Stone, et. al. The second woman is lying, given that all Franken did was bug her with phone calls about politics. Lindsay Menz says Franken was grabbing her ass while her husband took the picture -- really?? The latest woman, Tina Dupuy, is either a shameless self-promoter or mentally unstable or both (read her own words and watch her own videos and then tell me I'm "blaming the victim").

None of the claims by any of these women come even close to sexual assault, yet that's how they're being categorized. They're being lumped in with actual violations of women who actually have been assaulted or harassed, thus diminishing those women's experiences. There's no nuance here, no sense of proportion, no acknowledgement of degree. The #MeToo movement has gone way off the rails.

Good luck, Sen. Gillibrand -- you think this will enable you to claim the moral high ground if and when Roy Moore gets elected. But it won't. The GOP doesn't give a damn about your moral high ground. Not only are they rooting for the Alabama pedophile, they're actively promoting a self-confessed sexual predator in the White House. Your eagerness to sacrifice Franken won't get you anything, except the loss of a man who does champion women's -- and all people's -- rights.
 
 
+7 # Brice 2017-12-09 02:23
This is a total outrage and I hope Al Franken with re-think his resignation and stand up to this Republican dirty tricks.
 
 
-5 # bread and butter 2017-12-08 14:44
Democrats don't commit sex scandals. Only Republicans do.

Protestants don't commit sex scandals. Only Catholics do.

Atheists don't commit sex scandals. Only Christians do.

Midwesterners and Southerners don't commit sex scandals. Only coastal elites do.

My team is better than your team.

Na-na-na-na-na-na!
 
 
+1 # Lisa Simeone 2017-12-09 05:59
Quoting bread and butter:
Democrats don't commit sex scandals. Only Republicans do.

Protestants don't commit sex scandals. Only Catholics do.

Atheists don't commit sex scandals. Only Christians do.

Midwesterners and Southerners don't commit sex scandals. Only coastal elites do.

My team is better than your team.

Na-na-na-na-na-na!

Quoting bread and butter:
Democrats don't commit sex scandals. Only Republicans do.

Protestants don't commit sex scandals. Only Catholics do.

Atheists don't commit sex scandals. Only Christians do.

Midwesterners and Southerners don't commit sex scandals. Only coastal elites do.

My team is better than your team.

Na-na-na-na-na-na!

Nope. And nobody here is claiming that.
 
 
-1 # bread and butter 2017-12-09 12:31
If nobody's claiming that, there should be no problem.

I guess all the complaining about "they get to do it, and we don't", is imaginary.

When support Superdelegates, you lose the moral high ground to complain about the Electoral College.

When you complain about one of your own being outed for obnoxious behavior, you lose the moral high ground to complain about the other side.

Moore, and Trump are worse than Franken.

Due process should be involved.

But since due process IS NOT involved, and since we aren't ONLY going after Moore and Trump, but ALL assholes who are even accused of sticking their tongue or other body parts where they're not invited, we are REQUIRED to stop whining about poor Franken.

That is, unless we don't want the moral high ground.

If the only function is to let the chips fall where they may, and just assume it will hit the other guys worse than us, then, by all means apply absolutely no consistent standard.

Nixon beat his wife. Nobody cared because he was a Republican.

Clinton cheated on his wife, and his wife actually went after the accusers on his behalf. It DOES matter when it's a Democrat.

If it doesn't, we really need to stop arguing that there's still a substantial difference between us.

This issue effects ALL AMERICANS, and it's useless to pretend one "team" has the upper hand here.
 
 
+11 # PABLO DIABLO 2017-12-08 18:29
"Democratic spinelessness". You can put that in capitol letters. DEMOCRATIC SPINELESSNESS. Bunch of fucking do-gooders trying to make it look like they are finally "doing something". No wonder Democrats have lost thousands of races. WAKE UP.
 
 
+7 # angelfish 2017-12-08 18:34
WHERE is a ReTHUGlican such as a Donald Trump or a Roy Noore, who has EVER welcomed a Full Investigations into accusations of a FAR more Malignant nature than those aimed at Senator Franken? THIS is why the ENTIRE Witch Hunt STINKS to High Heaven! Whatever Al Franken did is Laughably Minor in Comparison to the "Pussy Grabber"-in-Chi ef and Serial Child Molester Moore! WHO hasn't engaged in a little Slap and Tickle in their lifetime? Senator Franken acknowledged his accusers allegatios, DENIED some, and apologized for it. It seems to me they are Beating a Dead horse in DEMANDING his resignation while the FAR Worse allegations of Assaults of Women and Children aimed at TrumplTHINskin and Moore slide by with NO outrage over the Fact that DESPITE ALL the allegations Il Douche is STILL ensconced in our White House! There'll be NO second Term for Trump, and if God is Just and I KNOW He is, perhaps Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders will be running this Side Show SOONER than Later! HANG Tight, Senator Franken, Americans with Hearts, Minds and Brains KNOW who you are as they KNOW who Trump is! Vindication is near! Justice WILL be served! Until it is, Resist! Rebel! and RePudiate this ENTIRE ReTHUGlican Congress FILLED with Thieves, ME Firsters, and Sexual Deviants!I'll be God-Damned if Corporations hold sway in our Government and Hope and Pray that They and their Sick-o Lobbyists will be Banished from Washington for the Good of ALL in this country! TAWANDA!
 
 
+7 # phrixus 2017-12-09 06:45
Alleged sexual assaults should be judged in a court of law, not the court of public opinion.
 
 
+3 # dascher 2017-12-09 14:15
if the criteria for forcing resignation includes being obnoxious or tasteless, the entire Senate would be forced to resign - not just for personal pecadillos but for the obnoxious - actually noxious - policies they have voted repeatedly to support over the past several decades. They should be be forced to resign for their silence in the face of Trump's noxious actions.
 
 
-2 # Lisa Simeone 2017-12-10 12:53
I'm reposting an edited version of an NYT comment here, with attribution & link:

"Ron Cohen Waltham, MA
Moral Outrage Derangement Syndrome, or MODS is a feature of left-liberal politics. Moral outrage has always been a problem for liberals. Arguably, the problem has grown worse over the years, reaching a nadir even before Trump was elected.

"Moral outrage can be healthy in moderation. It can boost our courage to take on unpopular causes, for example. In excess, it is debilitating, it clouds are judgment, and hobbles our ability to plan and act.

"That's where liberals are today. Railroading Al Franken out of the Senate made no sense in light of the existential threat facing our democracy. Yet many experienced Democrats in and out of the Senate, thought it would help them in 2018.

"Their reasoning was based on two symptoms of MODS. One is the perception by liberals that all voters share their moral outrage about ________ (fill in the issue). The other is the moral absolutism that MODS engenders, that, when applied in real life, is always self-defeating.

"Terminal MODS, I believe, is why Democrats have been losing recently, and why they will continue to lose, snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory once again in 2018."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/09/opinion/sunday/villifying-white-men.html#permid=25168315
 
 
-1 # kyzipster 2017-12-10 19:29
There were some articles floating around a few days ago about Kate Winslet saying some positive things about working with Woody Allen. She was brutalized a bit, like she approves of molesting children. I don't know if it will tarnish her permanently.

I've experienced this a bit with progressives, if a person takes one contrary view opposing politically correct group think, all kinds of horrific beliefs are projected on to them.

That's where we're at. In the case of Dems in Congress, I think they should have insisted on waiting for an ethics investigation with Franken without taking a stand one way or the other. Had they done that, they would have been slaughtered by many in social media and elsewhere.

This instant, sometimes worldwide communication is contributing to the group think in some very negative ways. I think the Dems are spineless and voters would respond to some backbone over time but liberal voters are responsible for this environment of politically correct extremism and this partly accounts for the double standard between Democrats and Republicans. They are a reflection of voters to a certain degree.

Trump is like a trickster spirit in some ways, he's causing progressives to spin out of control and his base still loves him. In fact, I think that's the main reason they love him. He makes us crazy. I'm starting to get a sense of humor, hoping I don't lose sight of how serious the issues are.
 
 
-1 # Lisa Simeone 2017-12-12 10:09
Quoting kyzipster:
There were some articles floating around a few days ago about Kate Winslet saying some positive things about working with Woody Allen. She was brutalized a bit, like she approves of molesting children. I don't know if it will tarnish her permanently.

I've experienced this a bit with progressives, if a person takes one contrary view opposing politically correct group think, all kinds of horrific beliefs are projected on to them. Etc.

I consider myself far left, but I have no truck with political correctness and never have. It's simply Maoism or Stalinism by another name. Yes, the Democrats -- and the so-called left in general -- have brought this steaming pile down on all our heads by their incessant, insufferable, ignorant insisistence on political correctness. Frankly, they deserve what they get.
 
 
-2 # Brice 2017-12-11 04:56
Let's not go completely head over heels here. The moral outrage of Republicans about crime, and abortion has been with us for a long time. Not only that but it is a general meme of the Conservatives and Republicans that all our problems in this country came from the counter-culture.

My thought would be do not confuse the morals and the moral outrage with the reaction and results that you brand your group with.

For example, in the last episode concerning Al Franken I have seen not one mention in the media about how this was an injustice and should be vacated. Not a single one.

The media, the whole media, framed this exactly as an issue of moral outrage, but it was the Democratic Party that was manipulated by it to turn on one of their own. That was the problem - and that problem did not get corrected, and not even discussed except for the presumed moral outrage forced on us all by the media.

Left-wing media too. A Left wing show stacked the program the day after the Democrats demanded and got Franken's resignation. Filled with self-proclaimed feminists who all agreed that Al Franken might have been unfair but to them that the ends justifies the means if it suits their vengeance against the system.

They do not see that Al Franken is anything other than another man, equal to Roy Moore or Harvey Weinstein, or whoever.

This is not what average people believes, and not what our system is built on the presumption of innocence and due process.
 
 
-2 # Brice 2017-12-13 07:46
I am not sure it is the moral outrage itself that turns people off. After all I think we can all relate to those situations that sometimes we cannot control that cause us to get so mad or morally outraged.

The problem is in not checking it across many people, and making decisions or taking actions before things are through through.
 

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